Speaker 1 00:00:11 This is Carolyn from and welcome to the quick getting screwed podcast, where we talk about everything related to contractors, construction and information to help you run better businesses. Hey guys, this is Carolyn chings and welcome back to the quick getting screwed podcast, where we talk about all the ways not to get screwed in the construction industry and truly, and honestly how to run a better business. And as you know, we've been working on a series of liens and how to have a lean, a valid lean in all 50 states. And today we're tackling this state of Alabama with Griffin, tend of the tend law firm. Good morning, Griffin, how are you?
Speaker 2 00:00:47 I'm doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1 00:00:49 Oh, not too bad. So before we jump into all the, all the exact ways and how to have Alene, tell us a little bit about yourself, how you ended up here and how you ended up in construction law.
Speaker 2 00:00:59 Well, I've, I've, uh, been practicing for about 20, almost 26 years now. Um, and I, I come from, uh, I'm one of three boys, uh, and I'm I of my father and, and my brothers. I'm the only one without a building science degree. <laugh> um, from Auburn. Um, they are, I, I, I've grown up I up in the construction business and I'm the, I'm the, they say I'm the good one, but I, I think I'm the black sheep, cuz I always wanted to be a lawyer <laugh> and so I just kinda, you know, a couple years out of law school, I had an opportunity to, uh, get on with the firm as an associate under, um, a, a partner who did pretty much all construction law. And I I've been doing it for almost, uh, two and a half decades now.
Speaker 1 00:01:48 That's amazing. Um, so do you help your brothers out a lot?
Speaker 2 00:01:52 I, I do. And you know, uh, you know, as being a lawyer, every one of your friends has got, Hey, I've got a question for you. And you know, they, they both with successful, uh, you know, owners of their own contracting businesses and uh, you know, they, they kinda get a little, uh, taken aback when they see my invoice.
Speaker 1 00:02:15 <laugh>, it's gotta say in the family, at least it stays in the family. Right. But I honestly, I don't think, I mean, I really don't think you can be a hundred percent successful in the construction industry without a lawyer on call. There's just so much whether you're residential or commercial.
Speaker 2 00:02:29 Absolutely. There's, I mean, there's just so much risk. Um, and especially today with the dollar amounts we're talking about, uh, you know, the industry's just, I mean, in the last 20 years, it's changed a lot, you
Speaker 1 00:02:43 Know, I know. And, you know, especially at subcontracts and all that stuff and just navigating all that stuff is, is huge. All right. So let's dive into liens in Alabama. So first question, do you have to be a licensed contractor in Alabama just across whether or not leans a, whether or not that applies to lean or not? Is it required that you're licensed some states do some states don't
Speaker 2 00:03:09 Yes, it is. Um, both for general contracting or commercial contracting and home building. Um, the, you know, and even subcontractors, subcontractors are a kind of a division of the general contractors, uh, licensing procedure. Um, it's not as exhaustive, uh, a process for a sub. Um, but for general contractors who contract directly with an owner for any projects over 50 grand, um, you, you have to be licensed. Gotcha. And that's um, and then in home building it, I, I believe the threshold is 10,000. Uh, you must be a licensed home builder and, um, the licensing requirement is extremely important in Alabama because an unlicensed contractor is not entitled to any remedy, uh, against, let's say an owner or an unlicensed sub against a GC, um, to recover, uh, amounts unpaid. So
Speaker 1 00:04:16 It's, but basically they'd be working for free if they're potentially, if they're working without a license, there's no protection. Exactly. I understand. No protection. So, um, how, um, how hard is it to get licensed as a contractor, if somebody was wanted to be, do work in Alabama,
Speaker 2 00:04:31 In Alabama, if you want to get licensed as a GC, uh, you know, of course you have to submit the application, pay the fee, there's a testing per process. Uh, I believe it's quarterly. Okay. So every three months, the, the licensing board issues, or excuse me, administers the, the exam, uh, and you of course gotta pass the exam. Um, and then, you know, your license, you, you will have bid limits, uh, on your license based upon, you know, uh, net worth company, net worth and capital and all that.
Speaker 1 00:05:06 Gotcha. All right. Well, good deal. Uh, okay. So who in Alabama has lean rights?
Speaker 2 00:05:14 Uh, well, a statute, our statute, um, pretty much says every person who supplies, labor materials, equipments equipment, or services towards an improvement is entitled okay. To a certain mechanics lane. So, I mean, you know, starting at the top, obviously a general contractor subs, suppliers, um, laborers and Alabama have for their wages. Okay. Um, architects, as long as they prepare the pan plants and supervise the construction, same thing with engineers. Gotcha. Um,
Speaker 1 00:05:52 Is there any limit on tier can like a sub sub sub sub sub,
Speaker 2 00:05:57 Uh, there's no limit on tier? There is a limit on suppliers. Okay. And a supplier to another supplier in Alabama does not have lane rights.
Speaker 1 00:06:06 Okay. Gotcha. All right. Good to know. Okay. So is, um, so let's dive into the steps on what's. What notices you need to send, what you need to do to have a vet. Is there before we dive into this process, is there any difference for a residential contractor as to a commercial contractor?
Speaker 2 00:06:24 No
Speaker 1 00:06:24 Difference. No difference. That's the same. Okay. So if I'm working on a project and, um, I wanna secure my right to get paid with a lean, what is the first step I have to take as a contractor?
Speaker 2 00:06:34 Okay. The first step depends on your, your position. Vivi the owner. Okay. Alabama, Alabama has two types of, of liens. Okay. Um, mechanics lie, a full price lien and an unpaid balance lie. Okay. And the, the distinguishing factor between the two is whether the lie claimant has a direct contract with the owner or the property or not. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:07:00 Typically your GC is going to be the one with the direct contract with the owner mm-hmm <affirmative>, and they're entitled to a full price lie, which is just means they can lean for the entire amount owed. Okay. Everybody else with one exception, one important exception, um, everybody else. So your subcontractors and suppliers, they have an unpaid balance lien, which is the, at the time notice is given to the owner as required under the statute, any unpaid balance in the hands of the owner, unpaid balance owing to the general contractor is held subject to the subs lien. Okay. And sometimes that can get, that can make a subs ability to, to a certain mechanics lean a lot more difficult.
Speaker 1 00:07:51 Absolutely. So they only have a lien to the extent that there's funds owed to the general contractor.
Speaker 2 00:07:56 That's correct.
Speaker 1 00:07:57 Okay. There's
Speaker 2 00:07:58 Actually
Speaker 1 00:07:59 Go
Speaker 2 00:08:00 Well, there's a, and there's actually a, a really horrible case on the books it's within recent, within the last 15 years or so that basically said the owner can, um, even after he receives that notice, he can, uh, pay the general contractor all, and it extinguish the sublime rights. It just kind of flips the lean statute on its head. And I don't think it's a good case and yeah, I imagine it will. It'll be overturned hopefully sometime in the near
Speaker 1 00:08:31 Future. Yeah. Cause you would think if you have notice and you pay anyways, that there would be, at least that's, you know, that's how we have a 10% retainage and the owner's not responsible for anything, but unless they have notice and make the payment anyways.
Speaker 2 00:08:44 Right, right. It, it, it kind of, I mean the entire, I mean the statute just literally says it, the, the owner's supposed to hold those funds upon a receipt of the note, the subs notice of intent to link. And then you've got a case that comes out and says he can get rid of it. So,
Speaker 1 00:09:03 Oh. The law always played funny tricks for, you know, for long periods of times. <laugh> okay. So there is
Speaker 2 00:09:10 One, go ahead. Let me, let me add to this because of this is very important. I've seen this a lot just in my practice, Alabama, again, you know, your full price, lean claimant. You, you have to have a direct contract with the owner. There's one exception to that. And, uh, again, this is statutory. If a supplier mm-hmm, <affirmative> not a, not anyone performing any labor, but a supplier. If he provides notice to the owner of the property prior to furnishing materials, that he will be furnishing materials. And he has to identify those and identify the price of it. And basically say, you know, um, I will look to you to, for payment, or I will lean the property if I'm not paid for it. That supplier, even though he may not have a direct contract with the owner, can bootstrap himself up into a full price lien claimant, unless the owner sends a written objection to that notice now over the years.
Speaker 2 00:10:16 And I, I, I guess I'm a more of a general contractor's lawyer, but I've represented plenty of owners, especially larger owners will on a project will receive these notices from subs or excuse me, suppliers, and just put 'em in a file somewhere and not do anything. And then come to me when a supplier doesn't get paid and say, why don't, you know, do we owe them money? And I'm, you know, I, I have to tell 'em you have to object and it doesn't have to be any kind of fancy written. It just needs to be a response to the supplier saying, please look to whomever you're contracting with, for payment. We will not be responsible. Gotcha. So that's the one kind of exception to where, I mean, the way the law looks at it is by sending that, notice that refurnishing notice the supplier, uh, kind of develops a quasi contract with the owner.
Speaker 1 00:11:11 Gotcha. Like a one sided, Hey, I'm sending you notice. This is if you don't object, you're gonna have to pay me. Okay. So this is the rule of unpaid amounts. Is there any time deadlines of when you send notices? Just generally speaking?
Speaker 2 00:11:25 Um, yes. Okay. Um, well let me let say this for original contractors or, or those who have direct contract with, with the owner, the only two requirements are filing your verified, it's recording your verified statement of Ling and then filing suit. Okay. Now for everybody else, you have to, prior to you have those two steps, but prior to those, for example, a sub or a supplier has to send a written notice of intent to lean to the owner, um, prior to recording its lean. Okay. And so there's no specific time period on sending the notice. There is a, there are time periods on recording the verified statement of lie and of course on filing suit to, uh, enforce the lie.
Speaker 1 00:12:19 Okay. So for, for the, for the general contractor, when does he have to file his lane? What time to what time? Uh,
Speaker 2 00:12:26 A general contractor has to record his lien, uh, within six months following the last date of work on the project. And it has to be, you know, contract work can be punchless work or warranty work. Um, and then a sub or anybody else who does not have a direct contract with the owner has to record their lean within four months, which is fairly quick time period,
Speaker 1 00:12:51 Four months from the end of their work or, or from the end of the general contractor's work.
Speaker 2 00:12:56 I'm sorry, four months from the last date of that subcontractor's work.
Speaker 1 00:13:00 Gotcha. Okay. So they that's when the lean filing timeline is, and they have to send notice the, the subs have to send notice before then, what is it? How many days before they file the lien, do they have to send that notice?
Speaker 2 00:13:12 That's a great question. The statute says just prior, uh, before fi recording the verified statement of lie. So, you know, you imply the law's gonna imply a reasonable time. And the, you know, the reason for that is to give the owner one, let the owner know that this TH's out there, that hadn't been paid and, and to give the owner an opportunity to, uh, to hopefully resolve the payment dispute prior to its property, being encumbered with cloud on its title. Now, again, four months is a kind of a quick time period within which you have to record your lean. And I've had, you know, subcontractors come to me, you know, about three months and two weeks. And I, you know, after say I need to file a lie. And I, I tell 'em, we have to give the notice first. I've literally given a notice the day before I recorded the lien, because I was up against my four day, excuse me, my four month time period. Fortunately, I didn't have to litigate whether that was time and night we got settled, but, um, you know, I would, I would presume a reasonable time two or three weeks or so 30 days.
Speaker 1 00:14:23 Well, and it would behoove them to send it earlier, especially if we're looking at an unpaid balance lie, the sooner the owner has noticed, the more likely you are to get paid the full amount that you're owed. So yes, there might be a deadline of filing the lien, but you always send your notice early.
Speaker 2 00:14:40 Uh that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 00:14:41 Yeah. Okay. And so six months inform. So once the lie is filed, how long do you have to file suit to enforce it before it expires?
Speaker 2 00:14:50 Okay. There's a six month statute of limitations and for reasons unknown to me, it, it that six months runs from the date of the maturity of the debt, the date the debt becomes due. Okay. I just, out of being conservative, I equivocate with that date, with the date of last work. Yeah. So, you know, if, if there are payment turns in a contract that maybe payment didn't exactly do, payment's always gonna be, it's gonna be earned on the last date of work, you know, that, so that's, that's where I measure that six month time period to file suit. And that's, that's applicable to both, um, GCs and subs and
Speaker 1 00:15:38 Suppliers. So if you're sub waited till the last minute to file the lie on the fourth month, they got 60 days basically to file suit to that's. Correct. Is there any, and is there any kind of extension you could file for some states have that?
Speaker 2 00:15:50 Uh, <affirmative> not statutorily. Gotcha. And I, I would, you know, I have, I have worked out kind of gentleman's agreements with, with opposing counsel and stuff on not filing the lien and, and they promise me, but I, I tell you, I wouldn't want to test that. And
Speaker 1 00:16:09 I agree, I have it in writing that you agree to waive your a right to say my lien is invalid, but I don't wanna have to test that agreement if it comes to it. I, I completely understand, but it's to their benefit to do that. Cause it gives 'em more time to try to negotiate with you without you filing suit that's right. So that's right. Uh, but it is a risk, um, cause we don't know how it's gonna come up for. Okay. So if you have to file suit to enforce your lien, would you be entitled to recover your attorney's fees?
Speaker 2 00:16:36 Not under the mechanical, uh, excuse me, the mechanical lean statutes, but Alabama does have a prompt payment act. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:16:44 Gotcha.
Speaker 2 00:16:44 Um, that requires, you know, owners to timely pay, uh, contractors and contractors to pay subs as well. And if you, so if I'm representing a sub and I have to file a lien and I have to file suit to enforce it, I'm going to include in there a violation of the prompt payment act. And under the prompt payment act, you can't prevailing party, uh, is entitled to its attorney's fees and expense.
Speaker 1 00:17:14 So the under the prompt pay due, are you allowed to crew interest as well?
Speaker 2 00:17:19 Yes. Interest accrues at, um, 1% per month. Okay. 12% a year. Gotcha.
Speaker 1 00:17:24 That's good to know. Okay. So, um, what level of incorporation does this material supplier have to prove? Did that have to prove it was actually incorporat can they just deliver it to the property? What does that, what does that look like?
Speaker 2 00:17:39 There are some older cases that say you have to, to establish incorporation, I'm talking 19 14, 19 18 later cases basically say that if, as long as the materials are delivered to the project and with the intent that they be incorporated, then the lean will attach.
Speaker 1 00:18:06 Gotcha. I'm sure they could always check if it end up, they actually did go someplace else.
Speaker 2 00:18:12 Right, right.
Speaker 1 00:18:13 Gotcha. Um, is the construction lender, if there is one ever involved in the lean process,
Speaker 2 00:18:22 Statutorily, they're not, but again, there's a case, um, in Alabama that basically says if you're providing a notice of intent, if you're a sub or a supplier and you're providing that initial notice of intent to lean, um, and you can reasonably discover the identity of the construction lender you need to, to, um, send, copy the construction lender on that nose. And I always do that at out of abundance of caution. I don't think it would be fatal to a lie, but I, I, I wouldn't want to,
Speaker 1 00:19:03 Well, it's more leverage if you're owed money, if the bank knows too, if you can figure that. Absolutely. What
Speaker 2 00:19:09 Is value? I mean, that's the real value of a mechanics lie is getting the lender to, to, uh, halt paying the owner or funding the owner.
Speaker 1 00:19:19 Yep. So to apply some leverage, so you'll get paid. Oh, and I forgot to ask after you file lean, do you have to send out a notice of the lien to like the owner or the prime contractor or anything like that?
Speaker 2 00:19:30 No.
Speaker 1 00:19:31 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:19:31 You, there's no requirement you, um, send it, copy it in. And now again, I, I copy everybody and their mother. Uh, so
Speaker 1 00:19:39 Absolutely, absolutely. Cause I want people to know I filed lean, Hey, filed this lie here. Just pay me. No, that's absolutely. Uh, all right. So lease spaces, can you have a lean out a lease space if you work like a build out on a shopping center or something like that,
Speaker 2 00:19:56 You can, its value is, uh, questionable. Yeah. Essentially. And you know, I have, I've dealt with a couple of lean on lease spaces. Unfortunately got the matter resolved quickly. But, um, essentially if you take it just like, if you take a mechanics lien on own, um, just regular own property, you know, if you take it to its full extent, you could have the, the, the property sold to satisfy the lien. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> well, on a lease proper, you can only take over the remainder of the leasehold interest, which no contractor is going to be interested
Speaker 1 00:20:40 In doing, you have the right to pay rent and occupy the occupy, the premises.
Speaker 2 00:20:44 Exactly. Um, and you know, like a business that is not contracting, right?
Speaker 1 00:20:51 Yeah, exactly. But
Speaker 2 00:20:52 You do have, you do have a lean right on, on lease property,
Speaker 1 00:20:56 I guess you could sell it. I don't know. You know, I, we had the same thing here. You get the same, right, exactly. I, you know, it's worth, Hey, you know, I, I always include the owner on the intent, even if I'm not gonna file a lien, even if I knows the lease, hold, just let them know. Maybe sometimes I'll make traction that way. But I, I, I just say that so that people realize if you're doing a lease property, you might have a higher risk of non-payment because a lie doesn't mean as much.
Speaker 2 00:21:23 Exactly. And that's the way it is here. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:21:27 All right. So let's talk about pub public work project, like Alabama, like, um, you know, libraries, fire, fire stations, all the thing. What is the, what is the lean or the bond claim or what is, do you have bonds? What does that look like in Alabama?
Speaker 2 00:21:43 Uh, okay. Can't lean government property. Uh, in Alabama we have a little Miller act, uh, that requires payment and performance bonds from the general contractor, um, uh, projects over 50,000. They have to have, the GC has to have, uh, uh, a 100, uh, 100% performance bond and least a 50% payment bond, uh, 50% of the contract value.
Speaker 1 00:22:16 And then how, if you're, if you're a potential subcontractor material, so how would you get a copy of the bond? Is it posted anywhere? Is it
Speaker 2 00:22:24 It's not required to be posted the statute? Um, <affirmative> does provide that if you are a potential lie claimant, you can request from the awarding authority, the public owner, a copy of it, and they are obligated to provide you with a copy of it.
Speaker 1 00:22:44 Gotcha. And then what kind of notices do you have to send it, have a valid bond climb. Is there a timeline, is that notice as the bond company or the prime contractor?
Speaker 2 00:22:55 Uh, there's a notice to the surety and I, you know, you always want to copy the, uh, the prime contractor as well. Um, but it has to be, uh, the, you have to give 45 days written notice to the surety, uh, before you can take any action to file suit.
Speaker 1 00:23:13 And then, so is it 45 days before you file suit?
Speaker 2 00:23:18 That's right.
Speaker 1 00:23:19 And then when is it, when is the cutoff for filing suit against the surety?
Speaker 2 00:23:23 It is one year after, excuse me, one year after settlement of the prime contract. Gotcha. So, you know, on a public job in Alabama, a GC, once it's completed has to advertise completion in a paper, depending on the size of the project, how are it may be three newspapers of record, but, um, they have to advertise completion. And then it's one year essentially from that date within which the, the bond claimant would have to file suit. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:23:59 And they have to send notice to the surety 45 days before they do that. Could they <affirmative> but they could always do it earlier.
Speaker 2 00:24:06 That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they just, it's, it's more of a waiting period than anything it's gotcha. Once you send your notice, as long as it's within that year, um, you know, you have to wait at least 45 days before you file suit gotcha.
Speaker 1 00:24:22 To give them a chance to respond. And so if you have to file, um, a claim against the surety, um, you can file the prompt payment to get fees, but under the statute, like the little Miller act, are you entitled to get your attorney's fees?
Speaker 2 00:24:37 You are entitled to get your attorney's fees. And so either way, again, if I'm filing a, a bond claim and a suit to enforce, I'm asserting both prime pay claim mm-hmm <affirmative> and then the claim on the bond, which statutorily you're allowed your attorney's fees as well. Good.
Speaker 1 00:24:56 Awesome. Is there anything else that I missed as far as the liens go or the bond claims that would be important for somebody that wants to, you know, file lie in Alabama to know?
Speaker 2 00:25:09 I don't think so.
Speaker 1 00:25:11 It's very straightforward. I, I appreciate the, the fact that it's <laugh> or the
Speaker 2 00:25:17 Streamline, um, there are some kind of, there are a few, uh, ambiguities here and there, but it's it, it's basic, you know, if you have a contract with the owner of the property, you know, you know, what type of lean you have, if you don't, then, you know, the other type of lean
Speaker 1 00:25:36 And the sooner your send notice, the better off you are.
Speaker 2 00:25:38 Yeah. I, I would say, you know, though for suppliers or subcontractors, you know, don't let, uh, uh, if, if you are supposed to be paid within 30 days, don't let it get to 60 before you start, um, before you start this process, because by that time the owner could have paid the contractor in full and, and your lean is no good.
Speaker 1 00:26:03 No, and I think what I tell my clients too, is like based the collection strategy on your cashflow needs, and then we'll work in what required to be a valid lean into that. Right. And if you're early, it's great. Right. Uh, but it's gotta be the same thing every time, regardless, especially for material suppliers and sub, it's got to be the same thing every time. Otherwise you're gonna be caught off guard and you're gonna miss something.
Speaker 2 00:26:27 Mm-hmm <affirmative> that's right.
Speaker 1 00:26:29 Let me ask you another question. That's ha it seems to be a hot topic lately, contractors that have signed contracts either in late 19 or in 20, that now have material CR material prices increased. What have you seen be successful? Has anything been successful in a contract that you've already signed? I'm I'm, I'm looking for ideas.
Speaker 2 00:26:52 I, I am seeing, well, yes, I have.
Speaker 2 00:26:56 There was a long period of time where I would try to put those in my prime contract X with owner, my clients, Brian contractor, with owner, and they, you know, nixed that to begin with. Um, but lately, like you said, uh, especially with, I mean, it's the pandemic. Um, I am seeing not only owners agreeing with my contr general contractor clients to have a, some form of material escalation clause. Um, and again, it's kind of a shared risk. Sometimes we can say it goes up 5%, uh, anything above that or 10%. And now recently, um, I, I'm seeing some contractors really can't do that the time. And, and, you know, my clients are agreeing to it, even if they don't have that with the owner, because there's nothing they can do. Uh, you know, it's either sign the subcontractor up and have this in there in case, or you don't get this sub it that you need, the one do the deal with. Um, so I'm seeing it more and more. In fact, I looked at probably we I've got a client, uh, out of Louisiana, that's doing a huge project in Dallas and mm-hmm, <affirmative> down in Texas and, um, just signed up pro you know, 10 subs recently that send back all these changes to our form subcontract and everyone of the 10 had a material, escalation clause in it. So it's becoming more and more common.
Speaker 1 00:28:36 Well, it's got, it's got to, especially at the sub level, cause I'm, I got some that are tied in, right. But, um, I mean, honestly, if you're the owner and you wanna move forward billing building, isn't that kind of your risk or, or you can wait, see if the prices go down <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:28:50 It is. I mean, you know, I think a general contractor takes some risk and, and again, these guys aren't, they don't have margins that really can, can cover a lot of this sometimes. And, and you get owner who says, well, I, I really want this for free. And I, you know, again, we go back to, uh, the risk that a contractor takes and what, uh, they'll, you know, that's a business decision, always tell 'em here's what could happen. And here's the legal responsibility for it. If you want to do it, that is your business. This
Speaker 1 00:29:26 Is, I'll give you the language that you should put in there. But yeah. Um, especially it's still so volatile of up and down and up and down and up and down. Um, and I think, I think they obviously they'll become a point where it we're at a level out, but I don't know where that is. It's gonna be a huge issue for a long time.
Speaker 2 00:29:43 I think it will too. And we saw a lot of this, um, after Katrina, I did, I, you know, again, I had, I have several, uh, contractor clients in Louisiana and with drywall, uh, with lumber, um, and then we had the deal issue or steel prices were just insane for a few years. And I think we're just seeing everything kinda, uh, uh, go up it's just volatile. Yep.
Speaker 1 00:30:14 Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. I appreciate it. And I love that, you know, it's so simple to have Alina in Alabama and we'll put, um, all of your contact information and the show knows, but if you wanna tell everybody where they could find you, if they have a question specifically about Alabama lean,
Speaker 2 00:30:32 Yeah. You can, uh, easiest, probably easiest way to get in touch with me. You can go to the website at, uh, www.thetendfirm.com and tend is D YN, D a L L. Um, or you could, uh, call 2 0 5, uh, three one four five seven zero seven.
Speaker 1 00:30:54 Awesome. Well, it looks like, you know, it's gonna be busy with construction issues around here, especially with all that, you know, 1.2 or it was at trillion in, uh, you know, expending for infrastructure.
Speaker 2 00:31:04 Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 00:31:04 People are gonna need us. Well, thanks again for being here. I appreciate it. Thank
Speaker 0 00:31:08 You.
Speaker 1 00:31:11 Thank you for listening to this episode of quick getting screwed. I hope you found it helpful if you like what you hear, please like us and follow our podcast. Do you want further information? So you can find
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