Speaker 0 00:00:00 Right. Hey guys. Carolyn Chroming again with a Quicken Screwed podcast, and I'm glad you're here listening. And today we're still, um, filming live from World of Concrete, and I have another great guest today, Brad Humphreys, with a Pinnacle Development Group. Right. How are you, Brad?
Speaker 1 00:00:13 I'm doing great. Better today, now with you. Right.
Speaker 0 00:00:15 I know. It's exciting. The energy's high here at World of
Speaker 1 00:00:17 Concrete. I know. It is. Usually it is. That's a good thing.
Speaker 0 00:00:19 All right. Tell us, before we dive into all these questions, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are now.
Speaker 1 00:00:24 Okay. I was a contractor at one time and after several years of contracting in the Midwest Kansas City area, Uhhuh <affirmative>, I, uh, got asked to speak at a conference called The World of Concrete. And uh, I guess they must have liked it cuz I've been back and I was given an award last year that said I've done more seminars than anyone else at the world of Concrete. My goodness. Well, that just makes me old,
Speaker 0 00:00:43 Right? Congratulations. Yeah. But that
Speaker 1 00:00:45 Makes me old. So it does show the gray hair. But, but nah, it's, it's been a great, this is a great industry. I love this industry. Obviously construction is very special, but, uh, but yeah, every year's been great. And there's, you're right, there's a lot of energy. I just came out of a class and it was high as a kite. Good. That's awesome. Yeah. Love, great energy. Oh yeah. Great. It's
Speaker 0 00:01:01 Better than talking to people
Speaker 1 00:01:01 Falling asleep. I know. I
Speaker 0 00:01:02 Know. Right. All right. So tell me about Pinnacle Development Group. What is that? What what do you do?
Speaker 1 00:01:06 Yeah. Pinnacle Development Group is a, is my organization. It's a consulting firm. I have a couple of guys that do contract work for me through that are certified. But we do leadership development training, uh, strategic planning, do a lot of strategic retreats and planning, but a lot of it is focused on coaching. I do a ton of coaching. Gotcha. Um, and work with leaders at different levels on how to not only improve their leadership, and then we also do a lot of productivity and process improvements. Um, we've got a big problem right now, and we'll probably talk about it, but we got a whole new group of workers coming in that have very little construction background. So there's a lot more teaching in leadership that has to be played.
Speaker 0 00:01:41 Gotcha. Yep. So you say coaching. Yep. So what does that, what does that look like? Does an individual come to you? Or are you coaching a business? What, tell me about your, like your client's journey,
Speaker 1 00:01:49 Your, well, both of those fit, I mean, okay. Sometimes it starts off with a company, uh, an owner or senior leader of being a meeting of mine, maybe even here at World of Concrete. And they'll call me a week later or something like that, say, Hey, can you come over and Id like to talk to you about my business? So we'll do that starts off broad, and then what happens is I sometimes start coaching the leader. The owner <laugh>. Yeah. And then if we, if the relationship continues, which a lot of times it does, then they want me to work with some of their senior leaders, uh, both not only in the office, PMs and the engineering, but also many times superintendents, general superintendents and the foreman level. Gotcha.
Speaker 0 00:02:20 Yep. Gotcha. So worry. So do they, do they set goals or do you set goals?
Speaker 1 00:02:25 We do that together. Normally I come in, they know they, and I have to, that's a good question because a lot of times I've actually been asked by contractors, Hey, well, give us our vision, you know, give us our <laugh>. And I said, no, no, no, sure. Coming. Not mine, <laugh>. Right. So what I try to do is bring them to that point where they're setting their vision where we need to go. And I will tell you, not, not, not, not, this is free. This doesn't cost you anything extra. Uh, most contractors do not have a vision for their business, and that's a problem. Big
Speaker 0 00:02:51 Problem. I I know I, and don't be wrong. I I was there too. When you own, run, start and own your own business. Yep. You're like working your ass off every day just to keep the doors open. That's right. And don't know, know where you're head is. Yeah. How do you change that mindset? How do you get him? Where do you start?
Speaker 1 00:03:03 I guess that's really hard. You know, there's a, there's a name that younger people probably have seen on Ted Talks or, or, or podcasts. Uh, Simon Sinek. Yeah. And Simon Simon's a great, he's not a construction guy, but he's, I, I I, I, he's a young younger man than I am. But I just idolized this young guy. He's really bright, but he really does make a good argument that we have to know the why. The Americans, and especially contractors, were very good at what, if you look up the word construction in the dictionary, there's a definition that says placement of materials. We're really good at that, but we don't always know why we're doing it the way we're doing it. And that's the why. And so I try to help these L owners. We did it today, I spent about 15 minutes of the workshop today talking about the why behind why are you in construction?
Speaker 1 00:03:43 And, and it becomes a purpose. It becomes your life mission. And it sounds hokey, but Simon will talk about, you gotta have the why. Then you start talking about the house, then you hit the Watts in America, or a lot of construction companies worldwide. And I got a couple of fans over here that are construction guys. They will often tell you they fight the what every day. And think about this <laugh>. I, I teach a guy what to do, but then he comes back and says, why am I doing it that way? Well, we haven't explained the why. So I think that's a, that's where I start, that's where I start to answer your
Speaker 0 00:04:10 Question. So you, you start with the why, right? Right. But then how, so you get the vision. All right. How do you get the team behind that
Speaker 1 00:04:16 Vision? Good question. Then what we do is when we, when, when the owners and myself, when we come to agreement where we think a good vision is for the company, just went through this the last week in a company in, uh, Pere, Illinois. Now we start taking that to the guys in the field, men and women who support the company. Here's what the owner says he wants to see. He sees as the vision. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, does that make sense? How do we make it work now we get their buy-in and then participate. Most of it comes through participation and engagement. I still find that the company employees that stay with you the longest are the ones who have always felt like they have a part in the organization. If you can't do that, you got a big problem.
Speaker 0 00:04:53 And so, do you see, what do you, what changes do you see employ in employees or team members when they're are unified on the vision or the
Speaker 1 00:04:59 Well, when they're unified behind a purpose and, and the vision, you start seeing more communication between, uh, between the office and the field. You know, the proverbial war has always been the guys estimated the guys in the field. So you didn't gimme enough hours, you know, didn't gimme enough equipment time, it didn't gimme enough materials. The guys in the office. So you guys are abusing what I gave you. You know, just do it like I, well, the problem is you gotta bring those two together. And so what we do is we start talking about projects together. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we start talking about, okay, before we make it formal, let's talk about how we're gonna get this done. And, and do you have time for a quick, real quick story? Yeah, absolutely. A, a good client of mine has a superintendent, wonderful guy. And he did something years ago that the company didn't even know he did.
Speaker 1 00:05:38 He did projects that were like six to nine months in, in, in length. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he would bring his project team over on a Sunday afternoon and let them bring their wives or their girlfriends, hopefully not both at the same time, <laugh>, but you know, they would barbecue brotts and stuff like that. And then when they got done eating, then his wife was awesome. She would take, she would take the, uh, the, the, the gals there and they would kind of go into a different room and, and, and, and Steve would take the blueprints for the job and lay those out on the kitchen table and then tell us guys, guys, here's their next project. You guys get in there, look at it. You tell me. What do you think we oughta do? He'd give 'em about 45 minutes to an hour. I attended one of these.
Speaker 1 00:06:13 It was so successful. He never ran a job that didn't make money, really. But the company leaders didn't know he was doing this <laugh>. And when they found out, they felt bad cuz he was spending, you know, 50 to a hundred bucks on food and stuff like that. They said, Johnny brats are cheap compared to what you're doing for us. Exactly. We'll buy the food. So that's the thing that I think, you know, Carolyn, you're talking about, we still have workers that need to be engaged and be participants in the process. If you don't make 'em a part of that process, at some point you're not gonna have a crew.
Speaker 0 00:06:42 And so, okay, I know you brought this up earlier. Yeah. What about the young generation that really knows nothing about construction? Yeah. How are you bringing, then how are you training this? What does that look
Speaker 1 00:06:50 Like? That's a great question cuz we have younger people and have less experience than ever before. We we're hiring guys and gals that don't know the difference between a Phillips head screwdriver and a, and a wrench. Yeah. And so we have to start, you have to very much go to the back. Let, lemme tell you what I'm trying to do with contractors. I'm trying to get them, I'm helping them in some cases, but trying to drive them, you have to have a training program. And I know contractors don't want to hear that because it means more time. And I've had contractors tell me, Brad, I'm tired of training. I trained a guy than he leaves me. Well, but here's the thing. If you don't train him, what do you have there? There was a great bumper sticker, you know, years ago that came out that said, if you think education's expensive, try ignorance.
Speaker 1 00:07:26 And there's a lot of truth to that. And that's why right now, real quick, in fact, I'll be talking about this tomorrow in one of my classes. We've gotta start seeking out and, and supporting in the United States, we have an organization called Skills usa. I was a board member in Texas for the last couple of years trying to rotate it off. We've got more young people, 18, even into their early late twenties, early thirties who want to go into construction, who are getting trained. And we're not, we oughta be sucking those people right out of those schools and reinforcing we ought be giving money. You know, Mike Rowe, the Dirty Jobs guy, everybody knows Mike Mike's throwing a little bit of his, uh, influence on the Skills usa. And it's just one of those things we have to do. We gotta go to the military services and recruit people. We've gotta give, but we're gonna have to get involved because we're not getting the kids coming out with training. We just don't.
Speaker 0 00:08:10 Well, and, and then at the average age of the construction workers just getting less and less people are coming into the
Speaker 1 00:08:15 Industry. Well, and right now, I mean, I mean there's a couple of, couple of, uh, resources to support this right now. Construction laborers are coming in. They're not staying more than 45 or 60 days. That's culture. Why? That's
Speaker 0 00:08:26 Not money. That's like, why do you think that
Speaker 1 00:08:28 Is? Because there's three things. Number three things. Why they're, and I've done studies on this myself. We've actually worked with companies doing exit interviews to find out uhhuh, here's the top three reason. And it's not money. No one's talking to me, no one's training me, and no one's coaching or following up with me. So here's what I, I've written a couple of books, not not published books for the library kind of stuff, but books that companies can tailor. You know, you need to have a 90 day plan. I wrote, I did write a book that was is is on Amazon on seven steps of employee retention. I'm not selling books, but one of those is called the 90 Day Plan. Uhhuh, <affirmative>, we don't have that. Contractors have gotta develop, it may not be 90 days, it might be 30, but what are you gonna do with that employee for the first four to 12 weeks if you don't have a plan? Ga here's what happens is, Brad, what I want you to go over there and stand with Steve. You know, follow Steve, teach 'em everything you can. Well, Steve gives the boss. Oh yeah, sure. And then he turns around. Yeah. Yeah. Right. <laugh>, I, I'm not a babysitter. And now, now he's got me training. Well, unfortunately we're gonna have to do some training. Well, we're not gonna have people come to work.
Speaker 0 00:09:25 And so what does that training program look like? Is it something ex like, is it give
Speaker 1 00:09:29 You number one, safety is always first. Right? We gotta talk about safety. Second of all, we want to talk about the tools. What we do. What tools are we actually using? Again, if you go back to what I said earlier, we got, we're hiring people that don't know the difference between a Phillips said screwdriver and a wrench. You better teach 'em the tools, any tools and equipment there, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then we start teaching work processes. And with them, we're gonna start, we're not gonna give them the most difficult task. Let's give them the early easy stuff to learn. Most employees just want to know that they're learning. They want to contribute. Most cases. And and again, we're also, we're hiring people that have never even thought about construction as a career. Yeah. And we're losing people before we even give 'em a chance to see that they could blossom into, you know, we may have a gifted operator. We have a gifted finisher. We may have a gifted, you know, a a a a a rebar guy, you know, that that we're, that we're not even looking at because we haven't given the guy a chance to learn.
Speaker 0 00:10:18 And and they don't feel invested. And they
Speaker 1 00:10:19 Don't. No. What happens is we make him an assistant to Joe and then Joe runs him around like he's a servant and he doesn't learn anything and he winds up quitting
Speaker 0 00:10:26 It quits. So it's really in your eyes, if we wanna build the construction industry, we need to be become better leaders.
Speaker 1 00:10:32 We're going to be better leaders. But leadership now requires training and education. And there is a difference. You know, you train bird dogs, you educate people and, and, and the education back to the why education starts with why. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> why are we doing it this way? And as I told even a group this morning over 400 of 'em, Hey, you know, you need to define what you do and why you do it at your company. Because, you know, you go to, you go to five different concrete flight work guys, 95% of what they do is the same. Yeah. But there's 5%. At least that is probably their difference between a competitor. And again, it doesn't matter what the competitor does, this is what we do. And most contractors a don't have that defined. So I'm telling you gotta document it. You gotta write it down, you gotta teach it. Yeah. And that's where you're gonna start keeping people. And so
Speaker 0 00:11:14 How difficult it is it to become up with a training program? Is that something they have to outsource or something they could
Speaker 1 00:11:19 Well, in, in some cases I get, I get some of that outsource opportunities. But I always tell folks, you can do your own training. Let me tell you, gimme the easiest thing. We're doing it right now. Videotape your workers, Uhhuh, <affirmative> and then go back. You know their's software out there. Yeah. Go back and do voiceovers. Okay. When you see the, the rebar being put in, notice how it's being, how the bars are laying on top of each other before we tie the rebar. We can do all kinds of videos on that. Go back and do easy additional over That's training. Yeah. Gotcha. But here's the deal. And and, and I have fun with contractors on this. They say we don't have time to train. No, no. Hold on a second. <laugh>, I want you to do something. Call the local weather network and find out in the last year how many days of rain did you have. Oh, okay. So find out we got 36 days or okay, now I'm not, God, I don't know if it's gonna rain on Saturdays and Sundays only. Probably not <laugh>. So there's probably gonna be a Monday through a Friday where you're gonna have a day canceled cause of rain. Guess what? That becomes your training day. Well we don't have anything. That's your problem. Yeah, exactly. So now you have
Speaker 0 00:12:13 Someone like you and
Speaker 1 00:12:14 Together. Yeah. Well yeah, but they can't afford to bring in people like me on the outside all the time. But the thing, my point is, you can do your own training. Do videotaping, do voiceovers. We got the technology. We've got the software. You can do it in your own. Somebody, a 15 year old high school kid that's good with computers can do that for you.
Speaker 0 00:12:29 And I know everybody's kind of got a little different why statement, but what are you finding? What is the consistent why in the construction? The people you deal with them.
Speaker 1 00:12:37 Well Yeah. A lot of company, a lot of guys get that confused with, I wanna make money, I wanna make a profit now. No, that's goals. Yes. <laugh>, why are you in this industry? Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:12:44 That's
Speaker 1 00:12:45 What I want to know. And the reason I, oh, I, I tried Tom, I try this. Okay. I want to get you in touch with your inner self here. Okay. <laugh>, why do you want to be in construction? Because we know that, we know there's a tremendous amount of people who have quit construction and then they come back. Why did you come back? Yeah. Um, I feel connected to the people. I feel like I'm contributing to something. Let me give you another example. Well, good GC in the Denver area. I love 'em. Won't name 'em cause I don't wanna embarrass 'em. They, they got a big hospital job many years ago. They, they were building onto the ward for the children's cancer wing. Okay. I met the superintendent for that job. He was an unbelievable guy. Twice a week he brought his lunch and ate in the waiting room with families.
Speaker 1 00:13:24 Really? And I asked him, why do you do that? He says, Brad, I never want to forget why I'm here. And so when we give leaders the purpose field leaders, you're not just putting concrete in on a sidewalk. It may be the sidewalk in front of a school. You're not just putting the foundation down for a building. A hospital clinic's gonna go there. When we start letting people know, I mean of all the industries that have a, a good excuse to have a great why and a purpose, it's us. Everything we build, everything we reconstruct, everything we redo is for the betterment of somebody. I agree. And we don't sell it that way. It's just a job. If you tell your employees it's just a job, you're not gonna keep 'em.
Speaker 0 00:14:03 No, I agree. I agree. Um, so what do you, what did you think or what do you think were the effects of covid in the industry and how are we coming out of that?
Speaker 1 00:14:11 Well, it's horrible, except most of us are, were were declared essential workers. Workers. So that kept a lot of our people from being laid off. Uh, but covid has become an excuse for a lot of people. Um, there's no doubt we have workers that don't want to come to work. I mean, I just, uh, you might have seen this too last week, two weeks ago, there's a report that I think there's five or six states where the average recipients of federal money in state money is like a hundred thousand dollars a year. <laugh>. We, we can't compete with that. No. I mean that doesn't even make sense to me. I agree. But that gets into another topic. But Covid did have an impact. Um, uh, I I don't think it's much of an impact now. Most of the contractors that we have here this week at World of Concrete and that I work with, they're blown right by that. Now they're ready to go. They never slowed down a whole lot except for the supply chain issues. And that was a big deal. And that still is a big deal for a lot of companies. Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:14:59 Yep. And how, how, how do you coach them to work through those things? <laugh>?
Speaker 1 00:15:03 Well, you're, you're really getting the secrets out of me now. I'm sorry. I think the big thing is stay stay close with your, your suppliers. Um, I wrote, I just wrote an article on this cuz I'm so upset with how lazy some contractors are. They should be published here in the next couple weeks. But the, the, the article addresses exactly that. Spend time with your material suppliers, negotiate the best, the best deal you can, um, stay in touch with them even though they may not be able to give you a whole lot. They're gonna serve you faster if you stay in contact with them. That's the best thing you can do. And then on the equipment side, this is something even the Caterpillar guys will agree with me on cuz they're the ones that bring it up. Uhhuh, <affirmative>, you know, I'm trying to get contractors not to be so gung-ho to buy equipment.
Speaker 1 00:15:42 I know the guys here at the show don't like to hear that <laugh>. But every one of this, every one of these pieces of equipment, uh, can be leased. Yeah. And and even the Caterpillar guys will say, we don't really care whether you lease it or buy it. Buy it. It actually is probably smarter to lease it because there's so many, you know, the, the, a lot of equipment is like our smartphones. We get updates two or three times a year. Well, equipment's the same way. Yeah. And so the bottom line is, is that I think people are, I think guys get in trouble. A lot of guys and women get in trouble. We, construction owners typically love metal. Yeah. And they love to see their shiny, you know, lot with all of their metal out there clean and all that kind of stuff. The bottom line is a lot of it sits every, now if you're gonna use equipment every day, then, then maybe buy it for different reasons from a tax perspective. But with all the, with all the computer generation and the, and the chips that are in all these pieces of equipment, it doesn't make sense to me. If you're gonna get updates and pay for it, why would you pay for it, lease it, and then get them to update it or, or switch out to another piece of equipment. Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:16:38 Absolutely. I know you, um, so what are you talking about? What are your talks about this year at World of
Speaker 1 00:16:43 Concrete? Well, this morning was, uh, this morning was focused on how do we make more money on our productivity. Right. Uhhuh <affirmative>. And so we talked a lot about, uh, what I call the pre-start, uh, the mid job and the post job. It's not new for a lot of organizations, but most of 'em don't do anything rapid talking about pre-construction. What do we do in the whole pre-construction? Not just pre pre-construction meetings, Uhhuh, which contractors know about, but what do we do before you start the project? You know, I, and I've, and I've really preached a message, you gotta have a no bad job mentality. What do we do? Not let your crews leave until, you know, they have everything on their trailers and trucks <laugh> that they're supposed to have. You know, I told the story this morning, it was true. I had a client a couple years ago, I went to see 'em for the first time.
Speaker 1 00:17:26 They had five hot trucks. They had 35 crews, five hot trucks. What's a hot truck? A hot truck Was the truck that you run stuff out because the guys forgot to get it. Got it. Well, that doesn't make any sense. Okay. We can send guys five, eight hours away to work and they take everything they need. Why are we not doing that when they're working 30 minutes down the road? So anyway, so, so organization, that's one of the things. Another item that I'll be talking about big time tomorrow, I think it's a big crowd too, is on the, uh, recruiting, hiring, and retaining Absolutely. Workers. Oh shoot. Well it's the number, it's the biggest gorilla in the womb. Right. And, and no one has one answer. I have many, some of 'em work for some, some don't work for others. But I'm gonna give 'em everything I can. Everything from the way you evaluate, uh, candidates, resumes, applications, uh, to what do you do. I share a little bit from my book on the nine of, you know, nine or seven steps for employee retention on the 90 days. I wanna give away some of that kind of information, but Gotcha. The fact is if we don't, we're just in a loss. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:18:20 Absolutely. Yeah. Can you share like one more key retention fact for employees? Well, I think that besides the why, I think the why and the vision is huge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:18:26 Yeah. That's huge. I think on, on the reten, especially for retention, I don't think, I think owners and leaders need to follow up a lot more with their new workers. I think you need to make five to seven contacts in the first month with a new employee if you'll do that. We've gotta win these people over because right now they're leaving us for things like that. No one's talking to me. Yeah. That doesn't make any sense to me. No, I agree.
Speaker 0 00:18:44 And have, so I've noticed this. Have you noticed a difference in the generation, like big time the kids? What, what are you seeing is the differences between like
Speaker 1 00:18:51 Well, yeah, I mean, I've got millennial children that are overachievers, but, but a lot of millennials are kind of growing out of that, uh, immaturity realizing they gotta work for a living <laugh>. But now we've got the, the, the, the uh, uh, the centennial generation, they're calling the centennials coming up. Gotcha. Those are those 14 to about 24, 25 year olds. And you know, they were proven to be born surgically with a, a cell phone in their ear. Right. Yeah. So the bottom line, I mean, we got foreman that can't even get guys to leave their, their, their phones in their car and their trucks. It's a different work ethic. I do think I've, I've been accused of saying, well, I think sometimes you want a baby people too much. Well, I don't know if baby's the right word, but certainly giving more attention to probably more necessary now than it was when I was growing
Speaker 0 00:19:33 Up. No, I agree. And I think they're different drivers like my generation and it's was mostly money, right? That's right. We wanted money. That's right. But now it's not, that's a quality of life days off. No training. They wanna, you know, you'll
Speaker 1 00:19:44 Love this. You'll love this, Carolyn, a couple years ago there was an article that that hit nationally, nationally hit it. It said that the average age of the American male still living at home with mom and dad had been boosted from 26 to 29 years of age. <laugh> never marry a man that's 29 that's living home with mom and dad. Right. But the bottom line is, think about the ramifications of that. I told a story, this funny story. It's, it's not true, of course. But it was funny. I said, you know, when I used to hire guys, I'd ask him three questions. Are you married? No. Get married. <laugh>. Do you have, do you own a house yet? They'll buy a house. You have any kids yet Don't have kids. And the guys would tell me, why, why are you always telling us to get married and have a house and have kids? I said, cause when you're married, you got a mortgage payment and you got kids who come to work every day. That's exactly right. But it's not that case. That same guy is living at home with mom and dad and, and he doesn't even have a house payment. No, I probably doesn't have a truck payment either. Right. And he's not buying his own food unless he goes out to eat. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:20:33 I know. It's crazy. Nuts generation. It's, yeah. We're just so driven. All right. Any last thoughts that you would want, um, you know, the Quicken Screwed podcast and how not to get screwed in the construction industry?
Speaker 1 00:20:42 Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know if I'd use the word screwed
Speaker 0 00:20:45 <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:20:45 But I, I think the one thing thing is I do think that owners need to be a lot more aware. Well, I, I'm real big on, I mean, as, as fun as you can tell, as much fun as I like to have with people. I do think on a serious start, you need to know what your costs are. You need to know what your budgets are and you need to know how that is affected. Yeah. Uh, one of the things that I teach, I love Demming. Dr. Demming, some of you don't even know who it is. Look it up. DMing was the quality guru. He was the godfather of quality. Everything we have today is re is really related to him as, as far as making things better. But DMing always said that the cost of quality, the cost of making a mistake is three times the amount of what it should have cost you to do it right the first time.
Speaker 1 00:21:21 Think of the consequences of that. When I run into contractors, either here or the concrete, or when they call me later, I'll always ask 'em to send me their financials. They want me to get involved with it, gotta send me their financials. Right. If I see a company that's doing a, a very respective gross sales uhhuh, but they're not making any money, uh, that's usually a sign of quality problems really usually. And so what I try to do, I think one of the big things that they're getting screwed on, they're screwing themselves cuz they're not looking at their own financials. They're not looking at what they need to do to make things better. And when you don't do that, you're gonna lose. It's just a matter of time. It's a slow, it's a slow kill. Yeah. But if you have deep pockets, but it's still gonna be a kill. Gotcha.
Speaker 0 00:21:55 All right. Well, where can they find all your information? If people wanna reach out to you,
Speaker 1 00:21:57 That'd be great. Uh, they can, uh, our, my, my, my, uh, email, direct email address is Brad Pinnacle, like the golf ball, pi n n a c l e dg for development group.com. And you can call me at (214) 762-4550.
Speaker 0 00:22:11 Awesome. We'll put all that in the show notes. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for your, you're awesome. Thank you. Oh, thanks. Thank you. Hey guys, this is Carolyn Crummins. Thank you from listening to an episode of the Quicken Screwed Podcast from World of Concrete. Hey guys, if you need help lean's, collections, contracts, we do it all. We do it in all 50 states for a flat fee and a predictable timeframe. You wanna know more, reach out to us on our
[email protected], which is in the show notes. Thanks. So you're talking to Kim too?
